Johnathan Ward is not any stranger to web advertising and marketing. The truth is, this entrepreneur has greater than 20 years of expertise and has experimented with nearly each on-line enterprise mannequin.
On this interview, he talks about two of the platforms the place he’s seeing probably the most success: Fb and Pinterest.
On Fb, he runs a number of pages, two of which have been invited to affix the coveted Bonus Program. He’s achieved attain of 4 million in simply 30 days on his hottest web page.
In the meantime, on Pinterest, he runs a number of accounts, one in all which has achieved 3 million impressions over the interval of 1 month.
On this interview, John talks sub-niches, automation, listicles, aggressive evaluation, and extra as he shares the secrets and techniques to his $50k months.
Watch the Full Episode
John begins by sharing his expertise within the web advertising and marketing area, with show adverts, lead gen, and internet affiliate marketing. He talks concerning the ups and downs he’s had in his profession on-line, and he additionally shares a few of his wins, together with area of interest websites, Pinterest, and Fb pages, at occasions incomes as much as $50k/month.
As for what’s working for him in the mean time, he talks concerning the huge variety of impressions and clicks he is getting on Pinterest in the mean time for one in all his websites, and he talks about shifting his content material from web optimization to social platforms.
He talks about launching a brand new web site masking a number of niches and driving visitors from Pinterest to his web site to see which area of interest was most profitable.
John shares his content material creation and pinning processes, what number of articles he creates a month, what number of pins he creates per day, and the way he makes use of the tendencies and analytics instruments. He additionally affords some attention-grabbing concepts for getting new content material concepts and testing them out.
He shares his ideas on one of the best matters for Pinterest and discover sub-niches which might be trending. He additionally talks about seasonal content material and when to put up.
The dialog then shifts to John’s success on Fb, the place he has two pages within the Bonus Program. He shares his technique for rising and his ideas on entering into this system.
When ti involves his present stats, John notes that some posts getting attain of as much as 4 million, and talks about his particular methods: his posting schedule, the content material he’s posting, and the way he’s been rising his likes and followers.
John affords an enchanting overview of how he automates his processes on Fb, drawing on his software program expertise, and he talks about automating his content material creation course of as nicely. He ended up making a software referred to as Content material Goblin, which creates image-heavy listicles.
He talks about utilizing AI for different content material functions, like creating faceless YouTube movies, and different tasks he’s engaged on, like a free software that assist with aggressive evaluation and one other for Fb pages.
Lastly, Jared asks John to share a few of his greatest failures, and in addition he talks about his day-to-day schedule and his future plans.
Hyperlinks & Assets
Matters John Ward Talks About
- How he received began
- What sorts of tasks he’s been profitable with
- His success on Pinterest
- Launching a brand new multi-niche web site
- Content material creation for Pinterest
- His pinning technique
- Finest matters for Pinterest
- Sub-niches on Pinterest
- Creating his Fb pages
- Stepping into the Bonus Program
- Operating his Fb pages
- Rising his Fb pages
- Operating Fb adverts
- Automating workflows
- Creating his software
- Utilizing AI
- Different tasks
- John’s failures
- His day-to-day schedule
- His future plans
Transcript
Jared: All proper. Welcome again to the area of interest pursuits podcast. My title is Jared Bauman. And immediately we’re joined by John Ward. John, the way you doing? Welcome on board.
John: I’m doing nice. I am pleased to be right here. I’ve watched loads of episodes, so, uh, I am simply pleased to share my story.
Jared: I like it. After we get first time caller, very long time listener type of state of affairs right here.
Uh, yeah, we have been speaking earlier than we hit document how, you understand, you are like, I am fairly aware of how this works, so we are able to simply go forward and get began. Um, I I am enthusiastic about immediately as a result of I believe your story in so some ways encapsulates a lot of all of us. Listeners me as a bunch. Um, and simply your story about the place you are at, the place you’ve got been.
Um, I do not actually have a great way to summarize it, so I am not going to attempt to, I am simply going to say, let’s get into it. Why do not you give us some backstory, catch us as much as who you’re, after which we’ll get into the, the, the meat and potatoes of immediately.
John: Yeah, positive. Yeah, I am going to go into it. So I have been type of concerned within the, I assume, web advertising and marketing area for about 20 years, proper?
So it is type of the enterprise fashions have developed over time. I began type of with show adverts and AdSense after which moved into internet affiliate marketing, um, moved into type of like performing some lead gen additionally, um, now I am constructing software program. So I’ve type of gone via all of the completely different phases and type of evolution of the entire web area.
Proper. Anybody making an attempt to earn cash on-line is aware of it has been type of, uh, evolution and altering and, and it’s a must to sustain with all the present tendencies. Proper. Um, so I assume like one of many earliest issues I’ve is, uh, I. One time I by accident spent 20, 000 on my area adverts once they launched and I awoke within the morning.
I used to be fairly shocked, proper? However I appeared on the income and it was like 60, 000 in income. So, you understand, it is similar to I type of had these like ups and downs all through my profession on-line and I’ve discovered various. What works, what would not work. And I type of simply have pivoted all the way in which alongside the time.
Jared: You talked concerning the evolution. I believe you place it properly. There’s many different extra disparaging methods to speak about, you understand, what this world has appeared just like the final couple of years, however on the similar time, like that is type of how this world has been because the daybreak of the web, you understand, um, ups, downs.
That is, that is a little bit of what all of us signed up for. What are a few of your huge wins all through the years? I imply, you understand, the place have you ever type of discovered your success all through the years?
John: Yeah, I imply, early on, it was all of the internet affiliate marketing stuff, proper? So the MySpace factor I talked about, I additionally did, in the event you bear in mind, come across the product the place you’ll offer you mainly a random internet web page.
Whenever you went to it, uh, that they had an advert community. I did very well there with gaming adverts. So sending individuals to internet video games. I imply, I had like a 70, 000 a month in income with that. Um, so I did that additionally again, uh, fairly some time in the past. Uh, Fb adverts to issues like courting or perhaps like weight loss plan affords, issues like that did very well for me.
Um, after which like lots of people, I type of pivoted to a distinct segment websites and I used to be doing fairly nicely with a few of my area of interest websites after which, uh, you understand, Google has made a number of modifications, um, during the last couple of years and people type of went downhill. So I’ve pivoted extra into like social visitors proper now.
So I am doing fairly nicely with Pinterest and I am doing, um, additionally rising some Fb pages proper now.
Jared: I believe I simply wished to verify to type of encapsulate this concept that such as you’ve had these months up to now via plenty of various things, internet affiliate marketing, um, uh, advert monetization. Um, you talked about social visitors, area of interest websites.
I imply, you understand, in, within the notes earlier than, and also you have been saying that at occasions you’ve got made 30, 40, 50, 000 a month. Had these fail, began one thing new, labored that as much as one thing giant, had that go down. Um, I assume from a excessive degree, why, and we’ll get into the ways of what you are doing proper now, however from a excessive degree, I am simply curious, what retains you coming again?
You realize, what retains you coming again to the desk? Yeah,
John: I do not know. I believe I simply have this drive to need to need to type of make one thing work alone. And as issues, you understand, both work or do not work, I discovered what, what works, what would not, I believe there is a, a, um, good, an excellent factor to, to study is when it is best to reduce issues off.
Proper? So like, if one thing’s not working, I strive not to stick with it too lengthy and I attempt to pivot to one thing that I do know is working after which double down on that. So I’ve at all times simply had this type of like entrepreneurial drive to do my very own factor, web sites and now I am entering into merchandise. So. Type of like type of that reasoning, I might say
Jared: you speak concerning the modifications during the last couple of years.
I am positive lots of people listening to really feel that means as nicely, perhaps had a undertaking hit or two. I do know I’ve, uh, and so the place are we at now? What are you engaged on from a excessive degree now? After which we will get into type of what’s working for you immediately. And I believe you have got plenty of ways that persons are going to get rather a lot out of.
John: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so mainly. The area of interest websites have been doing very well for some time they received destroyed by Google, however I used to be in a position to type of pivot into Pinterest, like many different, most likely of your listeners diving into Pinterest and Fb visitors. However with Pinterest, I am hitting about, um, like 3 million impressions.
I am hitting, uh, 20, 000 clicks. I believe per thirty days proper now, simply from Pinterest. Uh, it is simply the one web site. I’ve a number of completely different websites, however I am mainly doing that. I am monetizing it with show adverts proper now. And I’ve type of shifted my content material technique round as a result of what you may discover is. Numerous the, the content material that actually labored for web optimization functions would not actually match within the social, uh, platforms.
Effectively, uh, the customers are in search of various things than what they’re in search of once they’re looking on Google, proper? So it does take a distinct strategy to content material to make issues work on, on Pinterest.
Jared: Pinterest is the place lots of people have shifted. Did you pivot one of many websites that you just had that was getting natural visitors prior, or did you begin one thing completely new?
With this Pinterest undertaking,
John: so I assume I might speak about one of many failures right here. So the preliminary web site that was doing very well with, um, Google visitors, proper. I made a decision, Hey, I’ll pivot that to Pinterest. Proper. After which what I initially did was I used to be simply posting type of just like the featured picture, the identical weblog put up that I already had.
Proper. And I spotted this is not actually working for, for Pinterest. That is after I realized you might want to make a particular type of content material for every platform. So, you understand, the web optimization heavy content material simply did not work. Uh, at that time I made a decision I wished to go in a distinct path as a result of the, I did not actually just like the area of interest.
It was type of a dying area of interest. So I made a decision to enter one thing that was extra like visible and provoking, proper? Trigger that is type of like what hits with Pinterest viewers. Um, issues like, I do not know, such as you get like recipes, you get house decor, you get style, uh, I do not know, nails, issues like that.
Proper. So there’s, there’s lots of people on Pinterest looking for inspiration for issues they might do in creativity. So I created a brand new web site that mainly centered on plenty of these completely different niches and I take advantage of it to check out completely different concepts. It is probably not. It is probably not centered on one particular space.
So I type of use it to only take a look at out what is going to work after which discover out what my viewers likes. After which I type of doubled down on that.
Jared: For those who needed to say what’s making this one profitable on Pinterest, what’s it about it? As a result of it is actually broad. It sounds such as you’re in an entire, an entire host of niches.
Um, what’s what, like what was causing it profitable up to now?
John: Yeah, I believe. Um, what sort of has made it profitable is I centered particularly totally on listicle sort content material the place it is visible. So there’s like. Actually good pictures to go along with the content material, proper? So for example we have been doing like house decor, proper?
You’d have like, uh, finest colonial kitchens or prime 10 colonial kitchens. Proper. And then you definitely’d have, you understand, a picture of every, every, uh, design, some description of that and, you understand, in a listing format, after which you may take every a kind of pictures and pin them to Pinterest and provides it a distinct title description, and people are inclined to do very well on platform like Pinterest.
Then I additionally will take. And, um, take a few of these pictures and I am going to use Canva perhaps to, uh, create completely different templates for these. Um, I’ve used some instruments to assist like automate that. So one’s referred to as weblog to pin and one’s referred to as pin generator that I am positive a few of your listeners are aware of, however, uh, mainly, um, type of taking the identical content material that I’ve generated particularly for Pinterest after which posting it in several methods with completely different pictures and completely different texts and issues like that.
Um, so I might say do not simply put up it one time. Um, You realize, do completely different iterations and see what works.
Jared: How, like, I do know persons are going to be asking the feedback. So I’ve to ask this kind of factor. I do know anytime I ever put up about something Pinterest associated, persons are actually interested by like the precise, the everyday, what number of, um, what number of articles are you creating for this web site?
We’ll name it perhaps per week, per thirty days. After which what number of occasions are you pinning per week, per thirty days? Um, and once more, persons are going to ask me, so I’d as nicely ask you.
John: Yeah, I, um, I do not are inclined to generate that many articles. Uh, type of is available in spurts after I, after I really feel inspiration. Proper. So, um, I am going to do perhaps, I do not know, like between like perhaps 10 to fifteen articles per thirty days.
After which after I, after I set these up, I am going to put up these articles. Plus a few of my older articles, I am going to recycle these. I’d do like 20 to 30 pins a day. Um, Strive to not go a bit bit too loopy as a result of I do not need to, you understand, set off some type of spam filter or one thing like that. However up to now for me, 20 to 30 pins per day has been working and I attempt to range the, um, the kind of content material, proper?
I do not simply put up like 30 pins with the identical URL day by day.
Jared: What’s been probably the most distinctive factor you’ve got discovered about Pinterest this yr? You realize, as a result of Pinterest has been round for some time. I can see within the notes, you’ve got carried out Pinterest up to now. Like what’s type of stood out to you this yr? That is distinctive about both your course of, what’s working, what you are seeing.
Something.
John: Effectively, for me, after I initially began, I used to be doing all the things manually. Um, posting mainly like one pin per article per day. And it simply wasn’t actually working that nicely for me. I believe I discovered that it does take a bit little bit of scale proper now to, uh, seize some consideration from the Pinterest viewers.
The opposite factor I love to do is examine the tendencies software and the analytics software. And I believe lots of people know the tendencies software, proper? You’ll be able to go forward and sort in several matters and yow will discover the trending matters on Pinterest, how they’re rising or not rising and issues like that. The opposite software that not as many individuals I believe use is the analytics software that tells you extra concerning the customers that like your web page and your content material, proper?
So like, when you’ve got, like, I maintain speaking concerning the house decor, proper? However when you’ve got a house decor viewers, um, you’ll be able to go into the. Analytics, and yow will discover type of like crossover matters that your viewers is interested by. That is not essentially your core subject, and you can begin making an attempt some content material in these areas simply to see if it really works or not.
And if it does work, I type of have a tendency to start out pushing some extra of that sort of content material. If it would not, I type of.
Jared: I used to be going to ask you subsequent the place you get your matters, you understand, within the olden days, we name this key phrase analysis. I assume, I suppose we name it topical analysis right here within Pinterest. What matters have you ever discovered are inclined to hit one of the best? Is there a pattern line there? Is it actually random? Is it in some way tied to seasonality?
John: A few of it’s seasonal. Um, so I am going to say I’ve carried out some recipes which might be seasonal, proper? So, you understand, Thanksgiving has simply occurred, proper? And I had a leftover. Um, like a turkey soup recipe, proper? And that simply actually crushed it there for a few days. Uh, after which, you understand, these, these type of seasonal ones, they only, they actually hit actually exhausting, drive plenty of visitors after which they type of die off proper every season, however, so I type of combine it up with the seasonal stuff.
And the type of extra evergreen content material that might be used yr spherical. Um, I’ve discovered sure sorts of, um, sub niches, I might say, begin to pattern in several areas, proper? So you may take into consideration like within the recipe area of interest, perhaps just like the Mediterranean weight loss plan begins trending, proper? So you’ll be able to like deal with that or, or vegan or, um, keto, keto weight loss plan, proper?
The low carb weight loss plan. That one is, Trending the improper means proper now. So perhaps you would not need to goal that sort of content material. So, um, I used, I additionally use Google tendencies simply to get a basic concept of what persons are considering, however I primarily depend on arising with concepts, taking a look at them within the tendencies software. I positively depend on chat GPT to assist me provide you with concepts now.
So. That is type of like my strategy to it.
Jared: How far forward are you posting this type of stuff? You realize, like this podcast will go reside. I do not know. Finish of December, early January. I do not even know what vacation is arising, however like, I assume get that type of factor. Like how far forward are you posting these matters, these seasonal matters that you just’re, that you are looking in direction of?
John: I strive to stick with the seasonal matters. I really feel like there’s a bit little bit of a, like a sandbox on Pinterest. Nearly. It takes a bit little bit of time earlier than they begin to get impressions. So I attempt to have a tendency to start out perhaps like six weeks or two months forward. So if we’re speaking about now, uh, when this pod comes out, I might most likely be specializing in.
Valentine’s day sort content material. Proper. So that might most likely be the subsequent vacation. I believe that might be arising. Good level.
Jared: Um, Pinterest just isn’t all you place your time in direction of. I do know you are additionally succeeding on Fb. Can we, um, if it is, if it is good with you, can we transition into what you are doing on Fb efficiently?
John: Yeah, yeah. Let’s speak about Fb. So Fb is one other space I type of tried to shift to with the pivot of Google. Um, and I’ve, I’ve about like 5 or 6 pages. I used to be simply making an attempt out like completely different subject concepts on Fb. I managed to get two of the pages into the Fb bonus program, which in case your customers do not know, um, Principally, they only pay you to maintain individuals on Fb.
Um, you understand, they pay you for the put up you make. Um, so what I did was I took a few matters I discovered mainly by simply looking round and seeing what’s standard and what sort of content material does nicely on Fb, which I Um, curiously sufficient, it is very completely different than Pinterest too, though they’re each social networks, the sorts of content material that are inclined to do nicely on every are very completely different.
Um, so, you understand, I, I decide a distinct segment on Fb, I dive into it. I drive, uh, web page likes with paid adverts, after which I are inclined to put up, uh, every kind of several types of content material to see what works, so, um, The, uh, you understand, the Fb algorithm has been altering over time and also you type of should get a really feel for what’s working proper now and what’s not.
Jared: So Spencer’s talked about this earlier than as nicely. Um, how topically particular are these Fb pages? How broad, like which of them are, are those you bought into the Fb bonus program and perhaps share among the numbers behind that. I do know lots of people. We’ll at all times ask once they first hear concerning the bonus program is, nicely, what number of followers did it take to your web page to get in?
Was there a loopy engagement? Like what, what’s it, what let’s perhaps zero in on these two which might be succeeding on the bonus program and type of what have been the numbers and the metrics behind them? How broad or how slender have been the matters when it was accepted into the bonus program?
John: Yeah. So curiously sufficient, um, the one web page that received accepted had a reasonably low follower account in my view.
So it was round like. 10, 000 followers. Proper. And I received invited and it additionally wasn’t actually getting that a lot attain after I received invited, which was type of shocking to me as a result of among the different pages have been getting a lot better attain, however that one for some cause was invited to the bonus program. Um, so I type of suppose it is very exhausting to grasp what standards they use to type of decide which internet sites go into this system and which do not the opposite web page.
I grew type of to about 60, 000 likes. Um, so I used to be type of not as stunned that that one received into the bonus program and it was getting some traction, you understand, getting some impressions. The one factor about that one is, um, it is the one web page I’ve ever taken and fully pivoted the subject. So it wasn’t working within the preliminary area of interest that it was in.
I received it into the bonus program in some way with that area of interest, however the impressions within the, the attain wasn’t actually working. So I pivoted to a totally completely different area of interest after which it type of began taking off a bit bit extra, which
Jared: I do not
John: know if many individuals have really tried that.
Jared: No, I used to be going to say, how did you pull that off?
John: Um, yeah, it is type of, I wasn’t actually positive if it was gonna work or not. Proper. Um, you are allowed to alter your web page title, I believe each three months or one thing like that. So I mainly went in, modified my web page title, modified the branding. Um, I went and eliminated all, plenty of the older posts after which simply began posting the brand new content material.
And I began constructing extra followers that have been interested by that sort of content material. The adverts program.
Jared: So mainly the thought there’s as an alternative of beginning over, you are hoping to port among the, the, the Fb pages, um, you understand, follower traction, historical past, that kind of factor. Is that the explanation you do not simply begin over topically?
John: Uh, I assume the principle cause I did not begin, or I did not begin, Um, fully over with a brand new web page is the truth that it was invited to the bonus program. So I believe that is type of like a key. Yeah. You probably have a web page within the bonus program, there’s gotta be some option to make it work. I really feel like,
Jared: um, no, that is smart.
So let’s speak about, um, God, that is fascinating that the numbers have been so completely different. There’s nothing you are able to do to get invited, proper? You simply. It simply reveals up at some point in your account. Is there something? Yeah, it
John: simply type of reveals up and I believe I did not even get emails. I most likely was invited for some time and I did not even understand it till I went into the monetization part and stated, Oh, you are like eligible for the bonus program.
Jared: So
John: yeah,
Jared: you are not the primary one that stated that. Verify your monetization part. Um, trigger you by no means know. You are proper. Particularly with emails. Numerous these emails go to the improper folder and stuff. So, um, yeah. Okay. So the place, uh, let’s get a excessive degree overview. The place is that at proper now when it comes to, you understand, no matter you are comfy sharing, as a result of you have got two pages within the bonus program, inform us, you understand, type of some excessive degree type of, uh, numbers round that.
John: Yeah. I imply, the, the 2 pages within the bonus program, they are not fairly doing in addition to among the different pages I am engaged on. They do get attain in just like the a whole bunch of 1000’s. Uh, however like I’ve one other web page that I am making an attempt to get into the bonus program. It is getting like 4 million attain on posts, but it surely hasn’t been invited but.
So it is one other type of. How do they, how do they decide what will get invited? So
Jared: you’ve got received 5 or 6 pages you are engaged on for the Fb for Fb. We’ll simply maintain it that, uh, two of them are the bonus program, each wildly completely different numbers when it comes to what received invited. And but these aren’t even your two, I am going to say hottest Fb pages, proper?
You may have ones which might be getting 4 million attain. Have not been invited to the bonus program. Is it driving different profit visitors? Uh, different issues that you just’re benefiting from?
John: So for proper now, I’ve simply mainly been centered on driving attain and follows to attempt to get into the bonus program. I’m doing occasional hyperlink posts out to an internet site, but it surely’s probably not being monetized but.
And I am making an attempt to focus extra on conserving individuals on platform to only attempt to get in that bonus program.
Jared: What are some ideas that you’ve got seen by engaged on 5 or 6 pages that persistently result in good outcomes that persistently get engagement and develop attain? Um, you’ve got carried out this throughout 5 or 6, you’ve got received, once more, a wide selection of, Of success when it comes to your attain.
Like, what are among the issues you’ll be able to draw conclusions on which have labored persistently?
John: So I believe, like I stated, the Fb viewers is a bit bit completely different than like Pinterest or Google. I might say for Fb, you are in search of extra type of surprising, attention-grabbing type of click on baity sort content material.
Um, nearly like, uh, pictures. It’s going to cease the scroll, proper? Whenever you’re going via your feed and you are like, Oh, what’s that? And it’s a must to cease and take a look at it. I believe that type of content material actually does nicely on Fb versus type of the extra inspirational type of like primary pictures which you could get, uh, visitors with on Pinterest.
Uh, in order that’s most likely the, the one factor I might say you, you need to give attention to for attain. Like I’ve seen loopy pages, proper? Like, um, I am positive you’ve got seen like blow up cat furnishings, proper? And it will get like 100 thousand likes. Um, it is Fb, the extra type of ridiculous and nearly the extra. The picture seems prefer it was generated by AI.
It tends to do higher with that viewers for some cause. I do not actually know why, however that is the way in which it appears to work for me.
Jared: How usually are you posting to those Fb pages and how much content material or what is the construction like for what you are posting?
John: Yeah, so I am doing plenty of automation with that and I type of, I am mainly posting like from 7 a.
m. to 11 p. m. each two hours with, with the pages, um, the content material varies in format. It might be simply a picture to drive engagement. It might be a picture with a hyperlink into the outline or a hyperlink within the feedback. Proper? So I am simply actually proper now testing out what, what’s going to drive probably the most engagement.
After which additionally will it drive, uh, offsite type of. Principally simply individuals to view the web page and that may get some monetization via show adverts. I’ve additionally carried out, um, I’ve carried out a bit little bit of video. I have never actually put an excessive amount of give attention to the video, however they do are inclined to get fairly a, fairly a little bit of engagement, like on the reels and issues like that.
I
Jared: suppose you talked about on the outset of Fb that you just have been, um, uh, utilizing advert income or utilizing adverts to drive, um, development when it comes to the followers for these channels. Did I get that proper? And if that’s the case, like,
John: that is
Jared: proper. What’s working there. You realize, um, there’s quite a lot of methods from simply urgent a button and letting Fb determine all of it out to type of getting extra within the weeds on it.
What are you doing?
John: Yeah. So the one factor about Fb is you do want a following to type of get Get traction. The best means to try this is shopping for web page like adverts. And the way in which that I do web page like adverts, the way in which I strategy it, there’s actually, um, one thing I’ve type of narrowed right down to driving low price web page likes is the artistic, uh, mainly the advert picture.
Um, and my greatest tip there, discover one thing that’s attention-grabbing to your viewers. One thing that is likely to be a scroll stopper, proper? Like we talked about earlier than. After which mainly my format textual content on the prime, in the event you love this area of interest on the backside, like our web page. After which within the backside proper nook, the crucial half, have one thing pointing to the underside proper nook.
Uh, I am going to use a hand, I am going to use an arrow, one thing like that, as a result of. When these adverts seem on Fb, there is a put up like button and a web page like button. And what you need to do is drive the customers to the web page like button as a result of then they will get your whole content material. Effectively, not all of it, however they will get extra of your content material, um, of their feed.
And what I discovered is on the desktop, the button seems within the backside, proper? On cellular, it type of simply seems under the put up. It is like a giant broad button, however in the event you put that arrow in that backside proper nook, it factors to each of them and it tends to drive web page likes and it is pushed by. My price per like down from like 15, 20 cents to 2 or three cents.
And that is on like us visitors.
Jared: And so for these pages that you just did get, apart from the bonus program, it seems like plenty of that development simply got here from, um, uh, throwing advert {dollars} at getting web page likes.
John: Yeah. I begin with the web page like adverts till I get to a degree the place I believe I am able to type of flip it off and let the attain and the natural development type of carry the web page.
Um, after which if it would not decide up, like, um, I am going to, I am going to begin working some adverts once more. I additionally would. Advocate if you are going to run some adverts, do it with a very low finances. Um, I would not, I do not go like above 10 a day and I do it with plenty of completely different pictures, so I am going to take a look at 10 to twenty pictures. I am going to determine which of them drive the bottom price per leg and I am going to disable the opposite ones.
Um, I’ve even gone as little as like 2 per day, as a result of in the event you begin getting your finances too excessive, it will increase your bidding for price per leg.
Jared: Yeah, I’ve heard that earlier than. Lots of people can have a fantastic marketing campaign getting, you understand, no matter X, um, X cents per lead. After which they will double it trigger it is working.
And unexpectedly their, um, their price per lead skyrockets.
John: Yeah. Yeah.
Jared: Um, the rest on Fb? Uh, I imply, I am, I am baffled by the truth that you have got a web page with 4 million, uh, with an engagement of 4 million, uh, and you haven’t received invited to the bonus program, however apart from that, apart from that one loopy truth, the rest on Fb earlier than, earlier than we transfer
John: on that subject, uh, I believe it is Adam Mazari, um, the top of Instagram.
Um, he had made a remark one time that, um, we do not need to pay for the type of content material persons are going to share at no cost. Um, that I picked up in some interviews. So I am questioning, does the area of interest actually matter rather a lot for if you are going to get invited to the bonus program or not? Proper? Like if everyone is doing house decor.
Does Fb have to pay individuals to do extra house decor, proper? Or do you might want to discover one thing type of out of the extraordinary to get invited to the bonus program? In order that’s type of one thought I’ve. I have never examined the idea but, however one thing I picked up in an interview and I I have been eager about.
Jared: You may have teased a number of occasions already about, you understand, the extent of automation that you just undergo, your, um, your curiosity in, in AI and the way that is impacting issues. I do know on our agenda, we had. A complete part devoted to automating workflows. I imply, I I might like to get some ideas from you on that. I do know I might do a greater job there.
It sounds such as you’re in a position to do rather a lot together with your time. You’ve got received Pinterest accounts, Fb accounts. I am positive there’s much more you are doing, however the place does automating your workflows come into play? And perhaps let’s roll up our sleeves on that and share some ideas we are able to all study from.
John: Yeah. So, um, I type of, I am type of like an concept individual, proper?
As I work via these items, I believe, you understand, I am doing this again and again. How can I automate that away? And what many individuals do is that they’ll rent a VA, proper. And so they’ll have a workforce of VAs doing the work, uh, for me, as a result of I had a bit little bit of, um, software program expertise, I are inclined to attempt to automate the method, uh, versus hiring someone to do it.
So for instance, With the Fb pages, the entire posts are scheduled robotically each two hours all through the day. The way in which I do that’s I give it my sitemap or I am going to give it a gaggle of URLs after which I am going to have this software exit, scrape the pictures from the web page. Um, ship the pictures to open a I and have open a I write an outline that’s associated to that picture after which I am going to plop the hyperlink in someplace.
Proper? So, um, it will try this for 30 days value of content material to our each two hours per day. Um, and it’ll do all of the completely different put up varieties I discussed earlier with the pictures and the hyperlinks and the remark and issues like that. A few of them are simply pictures to drive engagement. Um, all of that’s mainly a one click on course of for me now.
Um, in order that’s type of my strategy to automation. Um, It I am testing it, whether or not or not it actually will work versus having a human resolve what to put up. However up to now it has been working fairly nicely.
Jared: That is actually intriguing. And so I assume it could, it is, it is vital that your posts in your web site are fairly picture wealthy and fairly picture heavy.
Um, Uh, is, is that affect the way you create content material to your web site, understanding that your software, your script will find yourself utilizing it in a sure option to then go to Fb with it?
John: Yeah, it does. I additionally talked about, I’ve one other script that may simply generate a bunch of pictures and put up them that is not unrelated to my web site content material, however the web site content material itself, it is type of shifted to listicle sort articles I’ve talked about the place you are going to have a number of pictures and you are going to have the ability to take completely different sections and put up them, um, you understand, the pictures individually and drive.
Hyperlinks again to that very same article, or not less than simply focus on that to drive engagement on Fb, proper? Drive feedback and issues like that.
Jared: So in essence, when you create the content material, you’ve got type of created a script that, uh, makes the workflow to Fb nearly instantaneous for you with out with very low effort.
John: Yeah, I simply mainly sit down like as soon as a month. Um, Take any of my new pages, plop them into the software and, um, among the outdated pages combine them in after which I let it schedule out content material for, for the subsequent 30 days. Like proper now I’ve hit one in all my pages with plenty of Christmas heavy content material, given the time of yr.
Proper. Um, the opposite pages extra evergreen. So I type of blended it up. What the kind of content material that I put up, but it surely’s just about absolutely automated. I do not actually do any handbook posts anymore on Fb. Um, mainly as a result of I simply, I am making an attempt to. Save my time. Um, I do focus a bit bit extra on the Pinterest stuff, however I am additionally constructing software program and issues like that.
So I type of should automate these items out of necessity.
Jared: What different automation, what are the, that is a reasonably good one proper there. What different automation, uh, or workflow, um, uh, ideas or type of developments that it’s a must to share?
John: Yeah. So the one factor I used to be doing was. You realize, I’ve shared like on the social facet, how I used to be producing content material.
Um, the one factor I am doing can also be producing the content material on the web site. So it began out mainly simply being like a picture, heavy, um, listicle script that I ran domestically. Um, since then, um, it began working for me on Pinterest, proper. With all of the visible heavy, um, posts. After which I stated, you understand what, I’ll make this right into a product and I’ll enable different individuals to make use of it.
In order that’s after I created content material goblin, which mainly proper now could be, Produces these listicles with, um, heavy picture articles and in addition recipes and issues like that. So it is going to maintain evolving, however I mainly, uh, work via the issues, discover the ache factors for me, after which attempt to resolve them for different individuals
Jared: is launching instruments, um, that you just use is, is making them accessible to different individuals.
Is that like a enterprise mannequin for you going ahead? Trigger it looks like it is one thing that you just’re in a position to do over and again and again internally.
John: Yeah, I believe that is most likely, um, the enterprise mannequin I’ll attempt to give attention to. However the important thing factor for me, I believe, remains to be doing the content material as a result of that is how I discover out what my customers would love and the place they’re caught and type of what would really assist the customers versus being on the skin and making an attempt to determine what do those who put up to Pinterest actually need to do, proper?
If I am doing it, I can discover and resolve the issues.
Jared: How else are you utilizing AI in all of the completely different duties that you just’re that you are going via per day?
John: Yeah. Um, principally era, content material era, um, you understand, textual content, plenty of picture era. I’ve extremely centered on picture era, provided that I am doing plenty of Pinterest and Fb.
Um, I, I had another concepts that I began engaged on. I assume we might simply point out actual fast. I discovered, um, YouTube channels. The place they’re type of simply doing these product opinions with pictures and there is, they’re mainly faceless, proper? Faceless YouTube channels. I am positive you’ve got talked about it. Um, and I began working with a few of these AI video instruments.
The place you’ll be able to type of plug within the pictures, even in the event you simply take like pictures from Amazon, plug them right into a template and have, um, textual content to speech, speak over the video and also you mainly create the identical sort of movies that these faceless YouTube channels are doing. Um, in order that’s like one other type of like superior factor.
Method I’d use AI and automation to type of attempt to generate some income.
Jared: Do you have got every other tasks that you’ve got began which might be perhaps beginning to get traction? They don’t seem to be, you understand, something actually noteworthy but. They don’t seem to be perhaps paying any payments but, however they’re beginning to get traction that you just’re, you are making an attempt, you appear to be a man who’s making an attempt nearly all the things.
So , it is type of why I ask.
John: Yeah, I do. Uh, I mainly strive all the things, however many of the issues recently I have been focusing are software program sort instruments. So. I’ve one referred to as journey by Mediavine Explorer. Proper. So I do know plenty of your listeners are most likely making an attempt to monetize websites with advert networks like journey.
Uh, mainly simply undergo, see what websites are added day by day and put them in a listing. After which you’ll be able to go take a look at these. And type of use it for like aggressive intelligence, I assume. Proper. You’ll be able to see what sorts of websites are getting invited to this system as a result of there’s a requirement, um, to get invited and you’ll see different websites.
Possibly they’re in your area of interest or attempt to discover a new area of interest. In order that’s one software I’ve on my web site at no cost. Um, I mainly simply use the instruments proper now for a lead magnet to drive my electronic mail checklist. So I let individuals use a few of these instruments at no cost. All I ask for is their electronic mail and so they can, they’ll use that.
Um, one other one I’ve is I name it put up magic.
Jared: I am taking a look at that one proper now. It is humorous. Yeah.
John: So mainly that is the Fb software I made. And in the event you’re aware of Fb, you understand that they’ve these textual content on background posts, proper? The place it is like a purple background with the textual content. I discovered that in the event you use these and also you ask a query, it actually drives good engagement as a result of individuals are inclined to remark.
After which I discovered that there is this little type of hack that you are able to do. You’ll be able to solely do it via the API, the place you’ll be able to put up a kind of textual content on background posts, and you’ll connect a number of pictures to it. So mainly what you get is that textual content on background put up, after which you have got a collage of pictures.
And it takes up a ton of like vertical display screen actual property. Whenever you’re scrolling actually makes it exhausting for the person to love cross up. Um, in order that’s one other type of free software I’ve on my web site that you should utilize.
Jared: Fascinating. I, um, I will be trustworthy. I didn’t learn about that. That is fascinating. I did not know you may, trigger you are able to do it natively within Fb.
Proper. However I did not know you may connect pictures on prime of it. Yeah,
John: you are able to do, so you are able to do. The textual content on background
Jared: that you are able to do that, otherwise you
John: can do a number of pictures natively within the UI. You’ll be able to’t mix them within the
Jared: proper. Precisely. I didn’t know that that was even attainable, however within the API you’ll be able to.
John: Yeah.
Yeah. Boy, how do you uncover these items? Okay. Yeah. I simply get random concepts. I do not know.
Jared: It looks like a contented accident at some point the place you are type of messing round with the API. And unexpectedly you uncover this, that you are able to do this. Um, I imply, you type of nearly are like a contemporary Renaissance man.
And I stated on the outset, I believe plenty of listeners are going to essentially hear plenty of themselves in what you are doing and also you have been open about it within the buildup. As we have been making ready for this, you have been, you talked about at first, what are some areas which have gone terribly improper that you’ve got tried?
What are some failures you do not thoughts sharing with individuals? Uh, you do not need to spend so much of time on it, but it surely’s at all times a bit comforting to listen to different individuals. Type of share about some issues they tried. They thought we will work very well. And for no matter cause, did not go the way in which they thought they have been going to go.
John: You realize, I am, I am fairly huge on sharing my failures. I are inclined to share it with my electronic mail checklist as a result of I believe it is rather a lot simpler to study from someone else’s failure than it’s so that you can expertise your self. Um, so I assume a kind of, uh, failures that I assumed was going to be type of like a giant hit was, uh, it was mainly a, it was one other like keto weight loss plan web site.
I am positive you’ve got seen them the place it is like, is Pink Bull keto, proper? It is like a programmatic web optimization play. And what I did was I discovered a database of like 300, 000 gadgets. Um, and I constructed this utility. It was a Ruby on rails utility that type of ingested all these gadgets. Um, displayed it in a pleasant format the place it had like completely different widgets, proper?
Like, um, a meter that might say whether or not one thing was keto or not based mostly on what number of internet carbs which have, in the event you’re aware of the weight loss plan, I additionally ran plenty of the pages via GPT 3. 5 on the time as a result of it was comparatively low cost. So I might generate some content material. I managed to get nearly 300, 000 of these pages listed by Google, um, utilizing one other type of.
Uh, script that I wrote to make use of the indexing API. Um, so, you understand, I received them listed. I received all that stuff, however I by no means actually received the visitors that I assumed I might begin getting. Um, I am unsure. I believe I type of went overboard with the variety of pages, to be trustworthy. I believe if I have been to do it once more, I would chop right down to perhaps like a few hundred of like the principle key phrases.
Proper. As a result of I had like. Is I do not know, tropical flavored Pink Bull, uh, you understand, keto or like is tropical flavored Pink Bull, 16. 9 ounces like keto. Proper. I did not actually like prune the content material. Um, however I do know there’s websites on the market nonetheless which might be doing okay. Um, I additionally suppose although, these sorts of websites are almost certainly to get changed by.
Issues like AI overviews. So I do not know if I might give attention to these now, but it surely was type of an concept I had again up to now. It type of failed.
Jared: It is attention-grabbing. Um, since you type of verify all of the bins of this system, the programmatic play, the lengthy tail key phrases, all that. And but, yeah, you are proper. A lot of that has gotten focused of late.
Um, yeah, I imply, What, what, what’s your everyday appear like, particularly going again to all of the stuff you’re making an attempt to focus increasingly more on software program, the main target increasingly more on automation and instruments, like what does a day appear like for you and the way do you construction that?
John: Yeah, um, I normally get up within the morning fairly early.
I stand up at like 5 a. m. Uh, and I are inclined to, if I’ve any help points with my utility, I have a tendency to have a look at these first, um, attempt to get these out of the way in which. After which I normally work on eager about or constructing new options for the purposes that I’ve. Um, so, For instance, like in content material goblin, I am engaged on proper now.
I’ve a primary recipe generator, however I am engaged on filling that out to, um, extra of a full fledged article. Um, so, like, I might work on one thing like that within the morning. Um, normally, um, I do have a day job nonetheless. So I get on my day job and I work that from majority of the day. After which type of like, after 5, 6 p.
m. I are inclined to work on my. Social like websites extra the place I am like, you understand, producing some content material or posting it to Pinterest or spinning up these Fb scripts to, to schedule issues like that. So, uh, I maintain my days fairly, fairly busy to be trustworthy. Um, I type of most likely work a bit bit an excessive amount of with these things, however.
I simply discover it so attention-grabbing that it simply would not really feel like work
Jared: all that and a day job. Um, what we touched on a bit, however going ahead, um, what new tasks do you need to strive or are in your radar to strive?
John: Effectively, I am positively going to increase the, the, the. The software program I’ve proper now, it is going to have many extra options, however I’ve so many different concepts that I simply, I do not actually have the time to do proper now.
So I’ll give attention to that software program for some time, however I’ve another concepts. I’ve a, um, an concept to type of increase that, that journey Explorer I constructed to different advert networks and embrace some extra information factors and mainly simply make it like a aggressive intelligence software. Um, in order that’s like one concept I’ve.
After which, um, I’ve some scripts that do, uh, search engine indexing and so they work fairly nicely. So I had one other concept to type of supply that for a comparatively low cost. I do know plenty of the index instruments that have been out have been type of utilizing Google’s index API and so they’ve type of, they’ve made some modifications to the place you’ll be able to’t actually submit fairly as many pages via that API.
So I believe, um, one other, one other concept is doing it via the software I constructed as a result of it would not use that API. So. And people are type of like some issues that I am kicking round. I am going to most likely provide you with a pair extra free instruments simply to assist drive my electronic mail checklist. However yeah, these are, these are it proper now.
Jared: Effectively, John, I actually respect you approaching and you understand, sharing what’s working for you, sharing what is not working for you, sharing what you bought success with, sharing the place you are getting success now. And once more, all this with a full time job, all this. With all of the modifications which have occurred within the, you understand, type of on-line and internet affiliate marketing world within the final couple of years, um, uh, you, like, like we talked about, you have got a bunch of free instruments that I might actually encourage individuals to go mess around with, however we’re like, the place’s one of the best place for individuals to observe together with what you are doing, the place you are going, all these free instruments, that kind of factor.
John: Yeah. I am, I am most likely most energetic on X, proper? I’ve a tough time calling it X, however I am most energetic on X. My title is John Ward right here. Effectively, J O H N, um, and yow will discover mainly my web site from there. Yow will discover the instruments I am engaged on from there. And, you understand, you’ll be able to be part of my mailing checklist. You’ll be able to take a look at content material, goblin.
ai for the software program I am engaged on. And, um, yeah, you can too discover me at Jonathan ward. com.
Jared: Good, John. Thanks for approaching board. Uh, good, good luck in all of your future tasks. And, uh, I am positive we’ll, we’ll, uh, we’ll be listening to about all the brand new stuff you’re engaged on because the time goes on, however I respect you approaching and sharing with us.
John: Yep. Thanks for having me.
